Kent Rodelius, sitting in for Jamie, has a discussion with guest Jeremy Donabauer, a wetland specialist from Agricultural & Wetland Services. Jeremy has been helping farmers with wetlands, wetland banking and wetland issues for almost a decade. Listen to learn more about how wetlands are used on the farm.
Following college, Donabauer began working for a small consulting firm developing property wetland delineations for residential and commercial developments. Feeling there was a need for farmers to have their own advocate and voice, Jeremy made the decision to start his own firm. Today, Jeremy Donabauer is a Wetland Specialist from Agricultural & Wetland Services. He has been helping farmers with wetlands, wetland banking, and wetland issues for almost a decade.
Kent Rodelius has been in the water management industry for over 37 years – all of them at Prinsco, helping to build strong relationships, grow sales, and develop key partnerships. Kent is a strong advocate for enhanced conservation practices designed to address the environmental challenges currently facing producers. He also has a passion for staying informed on regulatory and legislative issues which led him to testify before the U.S. House of Ag Committee. Kent is the acting President of the ADMC and is highly involved on both the state and national LICA.
Jamie:
This is the water table.
Kent:
The chance to hear the agricultural side of these issues.
Jamie:
A place for people to go find information and education.
Matt Helmers:
Water management is just going to become even more critical into the future.
Jamie:
How miss understood what we do is
Kent:
I would encourage people to open their minds and listen to this dialogue. This is Kent roedelius, coming to you with another episode of The Water Table. We’re excited today to have a good friend of ours, Jeremy Donabauer, someone I’ve known for years, to talk to us about his business and about wetlands and wetland banking and mitigation. And just a lot of questions that you might have. I met Jeremy back in the I would say it was the mid 2000s, where Jeremy and I got acquainted. I was traveling my territory and kept hearing about a young guy who was helping a lot of farmers with wetland issues and compliance issues and arranged a meeting. Jeremy and I became friends and have stayed in contact since that time. So welcome this morning, Jeremy.
Jeremy Donabauer:
Thanks Kent. Thanks for having me.
Kent:
Yeah, it’s good to have you on and we want to talk today about a lot of the things that effect landowners and also affect the general public. So we’ll launch into that. But what is it exactly what you do, Jeremy, what what is your business?
Jeremy Donabauer:
Yeah, I guess the easiest way to explain it would be is anything wetland related state of Minnesota. And I would say the vast majority of the work that I do is for the farm community, whether that’s wetland mitigation or banking, or just general consulting if guys have questions or if they’re going through a process where they’re, you know, even trying to work their way through the system with maybe things that they didn’t feel like they were treated correctly on whether that was you know, in the last 30 days, or 15 years ago. So that’s kind of the the niche of my business.
Kent:
What does your business card say? What’s the name of your company, Jeremy, and how did you get started?
Jeremy Donabauer:
Sure, yeah. The name of my business is Ag Wetland Services Incorporated. Right out of college I started working for a small consulting firm. And back in those days, it was called WRM services owned by Bernie Miller. And that was in Kimball, Minnesota. And when I started the vast majority of the work that we did at that time was for residential and commercial type developments towards the metro, you know, mostly people that were developing property needed wetland delineations, that sort of thing. That went on for a few years but starting in 2008 2009, there was obviously with the housing crash and whatnot, the writing was sort of on the wall there for me with that business. And, you know, there’s no hard feelings there at all. In fact, it kind of led me to where I am today. But at that time I also could feel this need for guys in the farm community that they really needed a voice for them and they needed somebody to stand on their side. And that’s what I really just dove head, head and heels right into the to the business and I went out on my own. And I went to my first farm show and that happened to be farm fest. I don’t know exactly what year that was. But I could tell that being there for the first couple hours, this was really gonna break off and this niche was was going to work out and I ended up calling my wife and telling her that I think this is going to work after all and and kind of from there it’s just history from there on out.
Kent:
Well it’s interesting how have so many businesses get started out of a need. Just as laying the background for a little history, in 1985 when the federal farm bill came out in December that’s the first time there was conservation compliance. And after that time, you could no longer train or modify a wetland in any way and still receive federal farm program benefits. So that just created a huge confusion in the farm. Prior to that, many of the states and the federal government even paid farmers to drain wetlands it was considered progress so there was an awful lot that had to be sorted out. And your business came along at a good time. Were you always interested in farm related issues? Jeremy, were you a farm boy?
Jeremy Donabauer:
I actually grew up being a son of third generation well drillers. So I was 12 to 18 years old I was on the back of a drill rig just about every day in the summertime. And I, you know, grew up in the country played amateur baseball that sort of thing, so I mean, I always kind of had a an affinity for that type of thing, but that’s kind of where I got started when I was young.
Kent:
So there’s lots of things that we could talk about today. First off, you were helping farmers sort out what their rights were and what they could and couldn’t do with swamp buster and the modification of wetlands. A lot of people, a lot of our city cousins don’t understand how heavily regulated a drain ages or water table management. Can you speak into that a little bit, Jeremy, some of the things you’ve dealt with?
Jeremy Donabauer:
Yeah, sure. I’ve kind of coined this myself a little bit, but I feel like I’m almost a wetland psychologist, sometimes, when it comes to that sort of thing. But with the federal farm program in 1985, coupled with the 84/20 rule, the WCA standards in Minnesota, there are significant protections of wetland in the state of Minnesota. And I, I think it’s a good thing. But it’s also something that is challenging to navigate through. And that’s where obviously, somebody like me comes into play here. But those two rules, if you want to call them coupled together really have significant protection.
Kent:
Absolutely. And the WCA is the wetland Conservation Act. And that’s the Minnesota rule that’s even stricter than the federal rule. So there are lots of regulations. And it’s those regulations are often seem to be more enforced up in the prairie pothole region of Minnesota, North and South Dakota, would you say that’s true, Jeremy?
Jeremy Donabauer:
Yeah, obviously, the Wildlife Conservation Act, that’s just Minnesota only. There’s definitely major compliance within the state of Minnesota with the farm bill and the Wetland Conservation Act. And I think it’s a good thing, I think guys should do their best to follow those rules and follow along with that.
Kent:
And I think that’s been the evolution that we’ve seen where people have figured out what they can and can’t do. Farmers, I think, want to farm the good land and they’re willing to buffer and do a lot of things on the soils that aren’t as productive. So there’s been a lot of sorting out and a lot of and a lot of adjustments. Have you seen the regulations change and alter your workload, Jeremy?
Jeremy Donabauer:
Yeah, and recently, I would say the last…Well, I guess I should back up maybe a little bit. But starting when I just started really doing most of my farm work, it seemed at that time there wasn’t a lot of knowledge even with the some of the agencies. There was a lot of fighting and using the term “wetland wars” I think that too also was was something back in the, you know, 2010 2012, you know, on those on those years, it was a battle, it really was. But I would say over the last five years, I think just with the even the education of the of the farm community, and sort of the just the attitudes of the agencies, I think has been a lot better. And it’s been actually a breath of fresh air to work with both sides.
Kent:
I would agree with you 100% on that. During those years when it was all being sorted out, The NRCS, which was formerly the SCS, went from being a helping hand to the farmer to someone who had to regulate and enforce wetland compliance. And it really got kind of tenuous, and a lot of bad feelings between those agencies. And I think we’ve seen some of that healed up, don’t you, Jeremy?
Jeremy Donabauer:
Yeah, there’s no doubt and I think it’s a good thing. And I think a lot of that has to do with also, like I say, guys, being a little more educated with what they can and cannot do. And like you say, Kent, farm and a good ground. And you know, even if there’s a marginal spot, nowadays, there are avenues to mitigate those small FWS maybe a spot that’s a half acre that traditionally is farmed all the time anyway. And, you know, go ahead and replace it somewhere into a wetland bank that is just well suited to have great habitat and great benefit for the land.
Kent:
Well, that’s a good transition point for us. If we pivot and talk a little bit about what some what, what’s really going on on the farm right now. There, there is a lot of that marginal land that was attempted to be drained. And that’s a lot of that has now been converted back into wetlands, restored to wetlands. There’s hundreds of thousands of acres that have been restored in Minnesota. And there’s also a banking mitigation process. And I think that you indicated earlier, Jeremy, that’s where you’re spending a lot of your time now. Tell us about wetland banking.
Jeremy Donabauer:
Yeah, it’s really needed. It is the majority of my work now. Generally speaking, the way it works is that if you have, let’s just say, a half acre an acre wetland, I mean, it doesn’t matter how big but that’s the typical size that I work with. That, you know, you just go around every year in the combine gets stuck, you know, every other year and you just it doesn’t get planted that great. And those are the areas that I think are just prime to be mitigated. And the way that works is that there’s also these properties out there or pieces of land that we are developing into banks, which you restore the wetland and in turn, you’re able to sell that credit back to somebody that wants to impact their wetland or wet spot. And it’s just, I think it’s a win-win. It adds habitat. And not only that, but the habitat that gets added is held at a higher standard to get an approval. So when you go to mitigate for that small spot, you’re gaining more function and value in the spot that you’re mitigating it to into the wetland bank.
Kent:
I would say those are really steps that people don’t know much about and don’t understand. So what are the most common misconceptions about wetlands in agriculture and banking?
Jeremy Donabauer:
I think that right there is, to me, what I see is probably the biggest misconception from an outsider looking in is that somebody drives out into rural Minnesota and they see a tile plow in the field and and you know what maybe they are going through a wetland area. What I think sometimes they don’t understand is that for that project, or that farmer, he in all likelihood went and purchased credit out of a wetland bank that now just has this better function and value, instead of this, you know, half acre acre spot that is getting farmed over every year anyway. And so I that’s probably in my opinion in the biggest misconception from an outsider looking in.
Kent:
How many wetland banks are there in Minnesota?
Jeremy Donabauer:
I’d have to call it there’s a lot. You know, just shooting from the hip, I’d say right now there’s probably over 50, for sure. Probably more like 80 to 100. But there’s also a side of the wetland banking program in Minnesota that is just deals only with agricultural banking. And it’s a way to try to keep the prices down to where you’re not competing with the commercial impacts of towards the metro or, you know, larger areas larger population areas to try to keep that cost down and still mitigate for valuable, let’s just say habitat areas.
Kent:
If I’m a landowner, and I want to mitigate some some wetlands, what is the process, Jeremy? Do I call someone like you and say, look at my paperwork and where do where do I find out how to purchase acres? And what’s the what’s the cost? And do you have to do it within the same area that you live in? What are what are the do’s and don’ts?
Jeremy Donabauer:
Yeah, I think the best thing is, honestly, is to get ahold of somebody like me just to navigate the process. For what I would charge to help somebody through that process, I think is well worth it. I it’s rare that I’ll have somebody that says, no I’ll try to go ahead and do this on my own. But each area of the state is different. And where you impact also dictates where you have to purchase your credit. And so there is a definite higher value on let’s just say, any water that drains to the Minnesota River that’s bank service area nine. So those credits are going to be more expensive than the credits up in the northwest corner of the state of Minnesota just out of, you know, supply and demand basically in land values. If you wanted to purchase an acre of credit in let’s just say, Redwood County, it’s going to cost you approximately $19,000 per acre. Plus there are some fees that the state of Minnesota gets on there with the collection of administering the the wetland bank program.
Kent:
So it’s certinaly not something that has to that can just be done willy nilly. It certainly takes a lot of a lot of planning and a lot of paperwork and a lot of study to get this done right. It’s like you say it’s probably pretty critical that someone helps navigate like that. And it’s it’s not something that you can just do on any piece of ground.
Jeremy Donabauer:
Yeah, it has to be that it has to be the right spot. An added benefit of mitigating or draining one acre of wetland that’s, you know, maybe marginal to begin with is that you’re not only gaining the the benefit of the drainage within that one acre circle, you’re gaining the benefit of drainage for your setback all the way around that too. So in a one acre circle, you might add two two and a half acres of of actual good drainage to that area in an area that, you know, maybe the setback was 130 feet. Well, now you’re losing an acre plus the 130 feet of drainage. So that’s that, to me, that’s the big benefit.
Kent:
Sure. And this is the mitigation to a wetland bank. Is it one to one? Or does it vary?
Jeremy Donabauer:
Yeah, it is one to one. For Ag purposes in the state of Minnesota, it is one to one. We can get into other commercial things. But generally, the commercial industry is two to one.
Kent:
And that’s one question I had, Jeremy, was who’s using wetland banks more at this point? Do you think commercial development or housing developments or Ag?
Jeremy Donabauer:
it’s hard to say. There’s another corner of the of the wetland banking industry too is and that’s for state and local municipalities that for construction of roads that seems to be taking a lot of the credit away these days. But for me, personally, I think the vast majority of what I work with is is Ag related stuff.
Kent:
So you could you could help somebody that was interested in starting a bank or someone that was interested in using a bank, is that correct?
Jeremy Donabauer:
Yeah, absolutely. I really enjoy starting these bank projects to to develop them. The one thing that I will preface a little bit though is it really takes the right piece of property to do this at. You can’t just, you know, say hey I want to go develop wetland credits and get the scrapers in the back hose out and start digging. It just it really needs to be a prime site. And I will look at all at least 10 to 15 sites before I actually say, you know, I think it’s worth going ahead to start spending your money on consulting and surveying and engineering to go after this. So it does take the right property.
Kent:
Jeremy, are these state run programs or federal programs? Or how does that work?
Jeremy Donabauer:
For the agricultural side of things is state run. If you get into the commercial side, the Corp of Engineers would get involved. But for the most part, it’s it’s a it’s a state run thing by the board of water and soil resources in Minnesota. It does take a while it’s not for the faint of heart to get a bank approved. But if you have the right property, it’s a good investment, and it’s also, you know, maybe a great thing to do on that piece of ground that, you know, just doesn’t fit into the farm practices anymore and, you know, maybe it could be developed into a bank.
Kent:
That’s really interesting. For quite a while there was a discussion among scientists that can you build a wetland bank that’s credible and functional wetlands, you kind of alluded to a little while ago that you really feel like they’ve solved that.
Jeremy Donabauer:
Yeah, just the the standards nowadays that the state of Minnesota and if you go the commercial route Corp of Engineers has to develop these banks. I mean, it’s stringent, it’s. And you don’t get your credit overnight. If you’re going to develop for let’s just say 100 acre site, you only get 20% of your credit, over a generally speaking a five year period, and you have to meet all these parameters along the way of vegetation and is the hydrology there. You know, all those things have to be met before your credits even get released. So you have to prove yourself that these banks are are developed and functional before the credits even released. So I think that’s a big advantage to the regulator’s of the state is to say, hey, we can prove to you that this wetland is functional this wetland is is especially more functional than this FW that’s sitting out in the middle of this farm field that gets farm every year anyway, they can show that the value of this bank has proven itself.
Kent:
Yeah absolutely. It’s really important. I think the message coming from the landowners, you know, this time of year like you said before, you thought you might see a farmer out or a contractor out in out in the out of the ground installing some tile or might look like he’s doing something that he shouldn’t be doing. But it is heavily heavily regulated by the federal and the state government. And to do anything like this wetland banking is even stepped up from that. And so there, there’s really good things going on. But I think one of the huge benefits is the habitat side of that, don’t you?
Jeremy Donabauer:
Yeah, absolutely. And and what you do is you’re able to consolidate these small half acre to acre wetlands that are probably going to be farmed when they can anyway, into maybe an 80 acre site that is just all habitat contiguous. Instead of these little spots here and there dotted across the countryside that, you know, maybe provide a little bit of value to, you know, a migrating duck for 14 days out of the year until it dries out anyway. But now you put it into this 80 acre site where, you know, it’s just a benefit across the whole landscape for everything.
Kent:
I think one thing that’s going on, as well, Jeremy is there’s a there’s a really a change in the thinking of the farm community about water quality and the responsibility of trying to figure out where we’re heading in the future. There’s a lot of work being done with Edgefield practices and things like de nitrifying, wetlands, and we we have a lot of things that we can do to really to really help improve the landscape. And it’s a it’s a win win for everyone. It’s a win for Ag and it’s it’s also a win for conservation and just the beautification of the land.
Jeremy Donabauer:
Yeah, no doubt about that.
Kent:
Jeremy, as we’ve kind of moved to wrapping this up. What do you think will be the next issues that the farm committee faces? Do you think there’ll be water or regulatory or a combination new regulations? Where do you see that headed?
Jeremy Donabauer:
That’s hard to say, I mean, over time, I’ve seen it go from just I think an understanding between the farmer and the agencies like we talked about 10 years ago. I think that was a big step in the right direction for everybody. I think everybody should try to understand where each other is coming from. And I think we’ve gotten there now to where point of if we just, on both sides, just do our jobs and follow the rules I think we can all get along. As far as new regulations go, I just, I don’t see anything coming. I don’t see anything that’s scary or are, you know, for either side, right now it seems pretty stable.
Kent:
That’s been a huge win for for the farm community and for for the for the whole general public is that some of that is really laid down. And we’re, we’re working together and figuring some solutions out. But we have we have a lot of ground to cover and a lot of things to do to keep ensuring water quality. Water quality is not going to go away. And I think probably with a new administration, there’s going to be some refreshing of some water stuff the waters of the United States and some of those things, so we’re gonna have to pay attention and and keep finding solutions. And it’s, it’s interesting to talk to you today about how your business has changed. Just sum up for us a little bit, Jeremy, on how you would say your business has changed over the years.
Jeremy Donabauer:
I think 10-12 years ago, I also had a little more fire in my belly than too, but back then I mean, I would take any fight. If you brought a fight, I would take a fight. And I’m very competitive and I I I don’t like to lose and I’d go in there and I’d fight hard and and I’d work real hard for the landowner and and I still will today but those sort of fights, they’ve they’ve kind of gone away which is good. And it’s now turned more into this, hey, I’ve got this acre what can we do with it? Or have got this piece of ground? Can we develop it into a wetland bank? And it’s, yeah, it’s more fun and it it’s a little less stressful.
Kent:
We don’t really see those really volatile situations raising their head that much anymore. There’s been a lot a lot of education on both sides. And farmers have become more reasonable as well as the regulators I think and it’s not really the issue at once was but always seems like there’s there’s things to be working on.
Jeremy Donabauer:
No doubt.
Kent:
Just as we as we close this out, do you have any parting thoughts, Jeremy?
Jeremy Donabauer:
I guess I have a couple. I think for the most part guys do know what the right thing to do is. And I’ve been on both sides of this and and I guess my opinion is just just follow the rules, guys, and and in the long run it’s it’s better for you. You know, trying to fight from the opposite end of of, you know, maybe pushing the envelope a little too much as it’s a difficult place to position to fight from but so there’s that. And then the other thing just to to say is when it comes down to this wetland mitigation and banking stuff, if you have a half acre an acre wetland or a place to that you’d like to talk about mitigating it it really is something that I have not had a guy call me back and say I wish I wouldn’t have done that. Guys that are mitigating these spots a little spots a wetland, farming straight and draining, not only that area, but like I say that the encompassing area around, is it is beneficial.
Kent:
And I couldn’t agree more. And one one thing that I think that sometimes we lose sight of here living in the Midwest is the quality of farmland that we’re we’re used to seeing. You can drive hundreds of miles and see nothing but heavy black dirt, loam, great soils. This is the breadbasket of the United States. And, you know, this, people think it’s kind of corny that we talk about feeding people, but it really does matter to farmers. And we, we need to farm that good land. I think that only 11% of the ground in the world is arable. And of that only 8% is highly productive. And we have the luxury of this highly productive soil here and great farmland. So we we need to figure out ways to farm that and, and yet, respect the interests of the general public. And so I think that’s the direction we’re moving.
Jeremy Donabauer:
We have great ground. And if you’ve got that little spot that you want to get rid of and it’s been bugging you forever, you know, get a hold of me and we’ll get we’ll help you take care of that.
Kent:
There you have it from Jeremy Donabauer. Our name of his company is Ag Wetland Services, Incorporated. It’s been a pleasure talking to you, Jeremy, and I look forward to the next time we can sit down and have a cup of coffee.
Jeremy Donabauer:
You bet. Thanks, Kent. Thanks for the opportunity.
Kent:
All right, take care. So that’s another episode of the water table podcast. Hope you enjoyed our topic today and learn something new. Just remember, you can always find us on your favorite podcast platform, Twitter, Facebook, and look for the watertablepodcast.com. Thanks so much for joining in. We appreciate it.