Podcast Episode 86

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On the Road... Iowa LICA Farm Field Days

The Serious Business of Safety… On the Road

The Serious Business of Safety… On the Road

Episode 86 | 21 min

With Guest:

Josh Snyder, Lead Estimator and Safety Instructor of Contractor Solutions

We’re on the road at the Iowa LICA Farm Field Days. In this episode, Jamie sits down with safety expert, Josh Snyder to get the dirt on digging in the dirt, and why safety is such serious business. What should you do in a trench collapse? What are best practices for working in confined spaces? It’s an episode that could save your life.

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Guest Bio

Josh is an expert in trench and confined space safety. He works with customers to make sure they know how to properly shore up trench walls so work on the job site can be performed safely. He’s been teaching safety classes for more than 2 years and is a NUCA certified safety trainer for Excavation/Competent Person Training and Confined Space Training. He is also certified through the American Red Cross to train in CPR and First Aid and is an ARA certified trainer for Mobile Elevated Work Platforms. Josh is currently working on his certification to train OSHA 10 and OSHA 30 classes.

Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is the Water Table.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
A chance to hear the agricultural side of these issues.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Place for people to go find information and education.

Speaker 3 (00:13):
Water management is just going to become even more critical into the future.

Speaker 4 (00:19):
How misunderstood what we do is.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
I would encourage people to open their minds and listen to this dialogue.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
This week we’re taking the Water Table podcast on the road to Melbourne, Iowa. We will be visiting the Iowa LICA Farm and the Iowa LICA Field Day. Join us as we interview some great guests. Well, welcome back to the Water Table podcast. We’re back at the Iowa LICA Farm site here in July of 2023, and I have Josh Snyder with me now. Josh is with Contractor Solutions and works in the whole safety area, has been with them for five or six years now. And just wanted to talk to Josh about safety in our industry and what Contractor Solutions provides. And so welcome to the podcast, Josh.

Josh Snyder (01:17):
Thank you. Appreciate your time for letting me come on here.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
Yeah, absolutely. So let’s just start with what does Contractor Solutions do? What is your main objective and how do you connect to people?

Josh Snyder (01:32):
We do a lot of different things, but our biggest thing is trench safety. That is what we’re geared towards. That is what our owner started the business for, is to make sure when people are doing their job, they’re doing it safely. And we offer a wide variety of equipment, not just for trench safety, but confined space safety. We’re a safety oriented company that we rent and sell other things that contractors would use day in and day out as well. But our focus is safety. That’s what we’re here for.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
Sure. Sure. So a lot of, in this industry and the farm drainage contractors that are managing water on the farm and they’re either installing pipe or they’re installing structures, whatever it might be, a lot of times they’re digging holes and there’s things that happen when you have an open trench and there’s things that you need to be aware of. And I know that one of the terms you guys use is shoring. Let’s talk about shoring a little bit. It’s a pretty common term in our industry, but just explain that, what that really means.

Josh Snyder (02:38):
For shoring, there’s actually, it’s a broad term for a bunch of different options that you can actually use to shore up a situation where it would be hydraulic shoring, which is jacks that you actually pressurize the walls with fin form board and put outward pressure. Or there is aluminum trench box where that is just a static type of shoring system where it’s not pushing outward, it’s just in there to protect from something caving in or a steel trench box. Sheet piling, which is by itself, it’s not a engineered system. It would have to be signed off on by an engineer.

(03:19):
But there’s also slide rail systems; that’s for bigger pits, stuff like that, wet nastier conditions. But shore is a general term and what’s often overlooked is people think, okay, I’m in this hole. There’s only one way to shore it. And that is not the answer. We have numerous different products and lines that I could shore up one hole three or four different ways. And guys always think that sloping or benching, typically a lot of people will bench, and that’s not actually in Iowa, we typically classify our soil as C soil.

(03:55):
And you can go out to a job site and you’ll see a bench on it. And legally per OSHA, that’s actually not to the standard. So sloping is actually a form of shoring up a hole as well. But there are a ton of different options. It’s just often overlooked to be honest, especially smaller companies. This is the way we’ve been doing it, so we’re just going to keep doing it.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
Yeah, yeah. And a lot of times people that contractors work in a certain area and they kind of know the soils, they know the conditions. And like you just said, this is the way we’ve done it and we know how the soils work here, so this is the way we’re going to continue to do it or we’re going to do it next time. And in reality, things can change with how wet it is or how dry it is. Conditions can change from one area to another and just doing it properly can really save you a tragedy, really.

Josh Snyder (04:56):
Yes. Yeah. We’re in Iowa. I mean the ground, you can hit a sand pocket here and you could hit blue clay 30 feet away. The ground is different and it does change daily. Rain, it affects how our shoring systems, it affects our ground. It does need to be addressed and always looked at. Actually in the US last year there were 39 deaths in trench and excavation just in the US. That’s just deaths. That is not any number of cave-ins where people were rescued. And there was actually, there’s been two already, not deaths, but cave-ins in Iowa this year where they had to have rescue come out.

(05:45):
And what it was, it’s something, yep, we’ve been doing it this way for how long and something changed and a collapse can happen. I teach safety classes as well, and I show a video. It was from Mexico a couple of years ago, and he was 10 to 15 feet down and they’re yelling at him, and all he got was he could turn around and it was already, he was covered up. So it changes and it’s all overlooked quite frequently, to be honest, the shoring. And people don’t realize how much actually a cubic yard of dirt weighs, which can be anywhere from 2,700 to 3,000 pounds for a cubic yard. And you actually, when you get a bucket that’s a cubic yard and you spread it out on the ground, it doesn’t look like that much.

(06:33):
But it is a good industry to be in. But safety still has to be the number one priority because with the equipment that you’re using and the weight of everything, it’s not an industry where you can cut corners because everything’s so heavy and damage to people, property can happen just like that.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah, yeah. And that’s my experience, which I’ve never been in a situation where there’s been a trench collapse, but I do know how quickly that can happen. There’s just no way for, you can have a pretty wide trench and be down in there and feel like, well, if this collapsed, I’ve got plenty of space to move around. And it happens so fast, you can’t. There isn’t anybody that’s agile and quick enough to beat it, to jump up on the side bank or on whatever might be there, a ladder or whatever if you don’t have it properly shored.

Josh Snyder (07:31):
Yep. And a lot of, we’re trying to get new people in the industry and without actually being in the industry, they don’t know the rules and regulations. And a lot of the older gentlemen, they’re going off of what they were taught and not actually what the regulations are. And I see it in my classes quite a bit, whereas, well, this is how we’ve been doing it. Just because that’s how you’ve been doing it doesn’t mean it’s the correct way.

(08:00):
Actually, the guidelines are there or the regulations are there for a reason and they’re often just kind of, people treat them as a gray area versus actually it should be a red and black line, whereas this is what it is. It’s something that, I don’t know, we deal with it all the time. You don’t ever want to hear about it. But it is something that could potentially happen anywhere on any job site if it isn’t being actually shored up or protected correctly. I mean, how many job sites are people digging in the dirt today? I mean, it’s just something that needs to be addressed. It shouldn’t be a question, hey, do we need this? It’s yes, we have to.

Speaker 1 (08:40):
Right, right. Is a trench box typically, would that be the most common use of shoring or the most common way of shoring a trench?

Josh Snyder (08:52):
Yes. Yep, it is. And the sizes of trench boxes, I mean we have some, like you can get a box that’s four foot by four foot, four foot long, four foot wide up to, I think on our rental fleet, we have a couple 28 foot long boxes in steel boxes versus aluminum. And it depends on what size you need, what your equipment is, but also how deep you’re going for your depth rating. And that’s always looked at. But yeah, the trench box is frequently or the most common one that is used. You can use it, you can move them with the equipment, slide them along your trench. Pretty handy as far as what you’re doing.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
Yeah, and that’s what I was just going to go is just to explain to listeners how that works is if you’re installing stick pipe or a structure or something, you had a trench box and then you get done with that section, you move it, slide it, move it, slide it as you go. So the people in the trench are always within the confines of the box.

Josh Snyder (09:56):
Yes. You’re never supposed to be outside of a trench box. Even your ladder is supposed to be inside the trench box as well. You’re never supposed to be outside of that. I have videos and stuff of they have a trench box there. It’s actually two of them stacked. And the point of the video is this is why you never step outside of the trench box because the trench box is in the hole, but it collapses behind the trench box after they slid it down the hole.

(10:24):
So yeah, you will be put in your stick of pipe in there, your guys will be in there working. And then once that is, they make the connection and grade it for the next part, they slide the trench box along and continue progressing with their work.

Speaker 1 (10:38):
So at Contractor Solutions, you guys also are, what other kind of safety measures and safety techniques do you teach and share and maybe sell or rent equipment for?

Josh Snyder (10:52):
We do confined space stuff. I actually have two pieces of equipment here today, a tripod for going down in manholes as well as a davit system. And I have a different setup on the davit system today. You can actually just have it set up on the ground like a typical tripod, but I actually have it hooked up to my truck and it’s a hitch mount because not ideally for using a tripod. You want it on flat ground and the job sites aren’t always flat. So we’re always looking and adding any new safety feature.

(11:25):
Something that we just added this in the last month, I believe, is something for ladders. Typically, when your ladder for all of any excavation or even roof, it’s supposed to be three feet above the landing point, but then you actually typically have to step around the ladder. Whereas now there’s something, it’s an addition to the ladder where it widens actually the ladder out and it adds to that three foot, so you can actually walk through it versus being a hazard trying to walk around the ladder.

(11:54):
Like I said, we’re a safety company, we’re geared towards it. And anything new safety wise, we’re going to try to have it. The confined space stuff, air monitors, that’s often overlooked too is air monitors like going in confined space, making sure you’re testing it before you actually go in. I’m trying to think of what else. Pretty much all of my stuff is safety related. STIHL has a new saw that actually has a break on it because kickbacks are a thing when they’re cutting pipe for safety, where it actually, if it has a gyroscope in it and if it senses a kickback, it actually stops the blade. Because there’s numerous people where I’ve been cut in the face, the neck, all of it. So we’re really geared towards safety.

Speaker 1 (12:37):
Sure. Sure.

Josh Snyder (12:39):
Safety classes. I actually am an instructor, a NUCA certified instructor for Competent Person, which is excavation safety as well as confined space, OSHA 10 hour and CPR first aid. That’s required actually by OSHA every two years for these companies to have their people, CPR and first aid taught as well to know that.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
Sure. When you talk about confined space, do you see more, I’m curious about this question. Do you see more people that aren’t as concerned with trench safety or with confined space?

Josh Snyder (13:16):
I would say confined space, to be totally honest.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
That would’ve been my guess, but not being in that industry I’m curious.

Josh Snyder (13:23):
Yeah. I have a prime example. We go out in June and do a trench safety stand down where we try to go to job sites, as many as possible and just do a quick toolbox talk. And last year or the year before, I went out and did a toolbox talk and talked about using an air monitor before you go into a confined space. As I’m pulling away from the job site, the superintendent actually is stepping or putting a ladder down in a manhole and just goes right in. I stop and go, “What was the point of my conversation?”

(13:54):
So I would say it is the confined space. It’s more so overlooked. The bigger companies it’s not an option for trench safety. It really isn’t. If something would happen on their job site, they’re pretty much probably going to be closing their door. So I see it the confined space stuff is often overlooked. I mean, a trench actually could be considered a confined space, and most people aren’t actually testing their confined or their trenches for bad air. But what I try to tell people in my classes is know where you’re digging. If it’s an old landfill or a gas station, you want to be testing that ground before you’re going in it because there’s potentially a bad atmosphere for that. So I would say the confined space is often overlooked.

Speaker 1 (14:43):
Well, and it’s interesting as we sit here and talk about this and the safety and how bad things can happen, both you and I sitting here are talking about things where we actually know people that have died in both situations, in trench safety and in confined space because they didn’t do the proper safety, didn’t take the proper safety measures. And it really is, with all of the technology out there, it’s really easy to do, especially in confined space now with, it’s not as much. You have to have a trench box, you have to have whatever in confined space, you just have to have a monitor, that’s all.

Josh Snyder (15:21):
Yeah. Yep. And with a confined space, you want to make sure you have two ways of in or access, a ladder and then a winch, or I have set up a winch in an SRL, but most people are just one way in and out on the confined space. And the trench box is an easier one because it’s there, you can see it, whereas the confined space with the air monitors. When you read something about in your industry, like somebody died, it’s just like a punch in the gut, especially when you’re in the safety industry and it’s in your area especially. It’s just-

Speaker 1 (15:58):
It could have been prevented.

Josh Snyder (16:00):
Yeah, 100%. Did I not reach out far enough to get to them?

Speaker 1 (16:05):
Is there any, I’m curious about in the trench safety side, is there any protocol from a safety standpoint, if you find yourself in a collapsed trench situation where it’s happening, what you should do? Is there any safety things you can do or is it just too late at that point?

Josh Snyder (16:24):
No, you should call 911 immediately, and it depends where you’re at. Smaller areas where the fire department is volunteered, they’re typically not trained in trench rescue. But I know Des Moines, they have a trench rescue can find space rescue. But first thing is calling 911 and then shutting the equipment off, getting any extra weight away from the edge of the excavation and getting it safe. Rule number one on a trench rescue, and it’s actually 60% of the people that die in a trench collapse are would be rescuers because they see somebody get caved in on and two or three people jump in. And typically what can happen is the other side of the wall will collapse.

(17:12):
So it’s actually that number is 60% are would be rescuers versus the people that had actually collapsed on the original collapse. So shutting everything off, getting added weight away from the trench. And one other thing is if there’s any indication, like a hard hat, shovel, anything like that of where they were buried, don’t move it. Leave it there and get emergency rescue there as quickly as possible.

(17:39):
One other thing that I tell all of our people when I teach the classes is our job sites are actually not that easy always to find. I mean, with LICA, these guys could be out in the middle of a field somewhere. If you’re calling 911, get somebody to the nearest road, whatever, because the job sites could be huge as well, that you can actually get rescue to where you need to be. It’s often overlooked. Yeah, we’ll call 911, but it might not be on a map to even get you to where you’re at.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
Yeah. I’m glad I asked that question because oftentimes we talk about what to do to prevent it from happening, and that would be the best, right, to prevent things from happening. But if they do happen, at that point, you’re in a situation that most people have never been in before, their adrenaline’s going, all that, what to do. And the simple thing, like you said, call 911 number, get that going so they can get there as quickly as possible. But then those other little tips I think are just important for people to remember and to know.

Josh Snyder (18:38):
Yep. We’re not going in. Even family member, it’s a coworker that you’ve been working with for how long, the first instinct, because it is you have that personal tie to them, is to get in there and it’s the wrong thing to do. You could put yourself.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
How about anything on a person that’s in the trench, is there anything they can do when they know that they’re in trouble to hopefully stay alive if they’re going to get in a bad situation or not?

Josh Snyder (19:08):
They’d say to try to build as much of an air pocket as you can, but it’s …

Speaker 1 (19:15):
Got to remember it’s-

Josh Snyder (19:17):
They don’t really teach anything for it. Yeah, the weight. You’re not going to be able to hold it up typically. And what everybody says is, as you breathe in, it just keeps getting tighter and tighter. And it’s just like in the farming industry where you hear people getting in a grain bin and it just keeps tightening and tightening, and it’s the same situation, but as much of an air pocket as you can and just wait because you’re not going to be able to move typically.

Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, good. Thank you for your time here on the Water Table today, and for some really valuable information about safety and trench safety in our industry. We’ll put your information from Contractor Solutions on the notes of this episode. And what areas do you guys work? Are you mostly just Iowa?

Josh Snyder (20:10):
We actually are expanding. We have a branch in, we’re in Iowa, the whole state. We have Omaha area, Kansas City, and now into Tulsa, and we’re working on St. Louis. We’re trying to get out in the whole Midwest.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
Good.

Josh Snyder (20:27):
Just keep going.

Speaker 1 (20:28):
We’ll see if we can’t promote you through the Water Table podcast. So thanks for being with us today, Josh.

Josh Snyder (20:34):
I greatly appreciate your time. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (20:37):
Well, thanks for listening to this episode. I have so much fun recording these. I hope you have as much fun listening as I do recording. These episodes are available on all major podcast platforms as well as YouTube. So find them and download them when you can. Thanks for joining us.

Podcast Episode 86

The Serious Business of Safety… On the Road

Episode 86 | 21 min

With Guest:

Listen Now

Guest Bio

Transcript

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Podcast Episode 86

The Serious Business of Safety… On the Road

Episode 86 | 21 min

With Guest:

Listen Now

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Guest Bio

Transcript

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