Podcast Episode 98

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Exploring Discovery Farms: A Lesson In Doing the Homework

Exploring Discovery Farms: A Lesson In Doing the Homework

Episode 98 | 21 min

With Guest:

Tim Radatz, Discovery Farms Coordinator

Jamie sits down with Tim Radatz for a conversation about Discovery Farms, a public-private partnership that is advancing research into water quality and agricultural drainage practices. Learn why getting real-time data from private farms across Minnesota is providing farmers with the information they need to implement the best practices for their area to not only increase yields, but improve water quality on their land.

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We need to keep as much water as possible on the land... We can do that through tillage, soil protection, cover crops, and drainage practices.

— Tim Radatz

Guest Bio

Tim Radatz is the coordinator for the Discovery Farms Minnesota Program. He obtained a Bachelor’s degree in Biosystems and Agricultural Engineering from the University of Minnesota – Twin Cities and a Master’s degree in Biosystems Engineering from the University of Wisconsin – Madison. He joined Discovery Farms Minnesota in 2010. Tim grew up on a small dairy farm in Winona County, Minnesota, and currently resides in Western Wisconsin with his wife Amber, and three boys, Wilson, Nolan, and Charles.

JAMIE (00:01):
Today on the Water Table Podcast, we are interviewing Tim Radatz from Discovery Farms. I hope you enjoy this episode. There’s lots of information about the education that’s taking place on the farm in Minnesota and the collaboration that’s happening across the state. Tim, welcome to the podcast. Look forward to our discussion here. Why don’t we just start by you telling me a little bit about Discovery Farms.

Tim Radatz (00:30):
Well, hi Jamie. Thanks for having me today. It’s great to be able to be here and share the story about what we’re doing with Discovery Farms. Discovery Farms is a farmer led water quality research and educational program. So we focus on collecting edge of field water data, either water that’s running off fields over the surface or water that’s coming through tile drainage, and we do this work on privately owned farms throughout the state of Minnesota and are looking at the amount of water is a big thing, and then also sampling that water for nutrients and sediment that might be contained in the water.

JAMIE (01:10):
Sure, sure. When you’re looking at the volume of water and the amount, if it’s significant, are there practices that you can suggest or that you’ve learned from that you can put in place and implement to help slow that down or to change that?

Tim Radatz (01:31):
For sure. I think one of the big things we can do as farmers and people operating in the land is keep as much water that we get from rainfall on that land for our crops to use, and we can do that in a number of different ways. We can do that through tillage practices, providing soil protection, cover crops that provide that soil protection. We can also look at different drainage practices. And in fact, we have started a project just recently that’s looking at a controlled drainage practice where we can modify the outlet of our drainage elevation and try to hold some more water back for our crops to use.

JAMIE (02:14):
Sure. Is that through water level control structures and drainage water management that way? Is that what you’re putting into practice?

Tim Radatz (02:21):
Yeah. Yep. It’s drainage water management or controlled drainage. I refer to it quite commonly.

JAMIE (02:27):
Has Discovery Farms used some of the other practices too that are involved in water quality? Now, we talked about quantity, that was kind of the first question, but on the quality side, when it comes to buffer strips or wood biochip reactors, is that something that…

Tim Radatz (02:47):
That’s something we’ve done a lot of work on in the past. We started Discovery Farms in Minnesota around 2010, so we’re going on 14, 15 years, and Discovery Farms as an idea started in Wisconsin. Even though it’s from Wisconsin, it’s still a good idea. But now there’s programs in Minnesota, there’s a program in Arkansas and program in the state of Vermont all working on sort of similar things. But in Minnesota, when we started collecting this edge of field water quality data through Discovery Farms, there just wasn’t any information hardly on privately owned farms throughout the state in terms of what actual losses are for the amount of water, amount of nutrients and amount of sediment. So the first portion of our program, we really focused on just collecting that baseline data, finding out when water is moving, finding out when sediment is running off, if there is a time period throughout the year that has more of a risk for sediment and nutrient loss, and we’ve learned a lot.

(03:55):
I would say the first 10 to 12 years of our program have been focused on just collecting data on what farmers are doing, actual practices used in the state with actual weather conditions that we have observed. So that’s been really interesting in terms of just learning what’s actually going on. More recently, we have gone into more testing of specific practices to see how they compare, like conventional practices. So I talked a little bit about controlled drainage before or drainage water management. We have a new project that’s specifically looking at that practice, and we’ll compare it to conventional drainage to see what the actual benefits are of that specific practice. We also have been looking at specific practices like cover crops on a couple of our other farms where we have a couple of different basins in the same field, all practices being equal except one of the drainage basins has cover crops and the other does not. So trying to put specific numbers in reductions to these specific practices is kind of the direction we’ve been moving to with our newer projects.

JAMIE (05:13):
Good. On these practices, I’m sure you have some examples over your 14 years of some really interesting data that you either want to dig into further or that you’re confident in, if you do these practices, this is what the outcomes are going to be. What happens at that point when you discover that? How do you take that data and introduce it into other conversations or get other agencies involved, things like that, that need to know some positive impacts, or negative, but need to know what you’re discovering that is probably unusual or wasn’t expected?

Tim Radatz (05:57):
Yeah, great question. We do that in a number of different ways and we view data as a good thing, and I think a lot of farmers appreciate that because we just want to know, we don’t want to rely on computer models or somebody’s perception of what’s actually happening on the farm, we want to put actual numbers to what’s actually happening out there. So after we collect this data, we do a number of meetings throughout the state. We just got finished up with a couple of our annual nutrient and annual nitrogen meetings that we do every year looking at data similar to this. So we try to share it in those ways, do a number of different meetings throughout the state. We also share this data pretty freely with University of Minnesota researchers or agency folks that are interested in these questions. So we really want this data to get used. We want it to be useful in terms of the conversations that our society is having about agricultural practices and their impacts on water quality.

JAMIE (07:06):
Sure. How is Discovery Farms funded? How does that work? What’s the source of your…

Tim Radatz (07:13):
Yeah, great question. So we’re a farmer led program, so we have a steering committee that organizes and leads our program comprised of a number of farmers throughout Minnesota. We’re also farmer funded, so a majority of our funding for our program comes through the Minnesota Corn Research and Promotion Council. So the Corn checkoff provides a substantial portion of our funding. We also leverage that funding into competing for federal or state grants through USDA or through other state agencies that might have grant programs where you have to provide some cost share. That sort of setup works pretty good for us because we do have some funds that can provide cost share and leverage that money from the corn growers and hopefully get more bang for our buck, be able to do more research in this area from their contributions.

JAMIE (08:14):
When you talk partially about your program, that’s how you’re funded, but when you start talking about your program goals and you’re talking about and thinking about soil health, water quality, talk more about that around, we mentioned earlier on in the beginning of this, around the quantity of water and then the quality of water, but how do you collaborate and how do you choose sites, things like that, to say, hey, this is a real overarching goal of this whole Discovery Farms thing, is water quality and soil health. And so then when you’re collaborating with farmers and with landowners, how do you choose… Minnesota’s a big state and there’s different practices that happen from the northwest to the southeast, and it’s a long ways between there with a lot of things happening between there, so how do you go about choosing sites and choosing relationships to put practices in place on the ground?

Tim Radatz (09:19):
Sure. I think that’s one of the things I love about Minnesota is the diversity of farming enterprises, the different types of farms we get to work with, and then also the diversity of landscapes. I mean, I think certain people think that, oh, Minnesota is just all corn, soybeans and [inaudible 00:09:38]. That is not the case. That’s one of the parts I love about this job is just working with the different sorts of producers, the different practices that they employ, because not every practice is going to work everywhere across the state, so it’s interesting to find out what they’ve been doing to cope with their settings and their farming operations.

(10:03):
But how we pick farms, our steering committee actually is in charge of picking locations and picking practices that we might need more data on. And when we first started this program, that 10 to 15 years ago, we had an application process where farmers could apply to become Discovery Farms. We still have a number of applications on file. There’s way more interest in being part of this program than what we can provide in terms of monitoring stations and upkeep with that. We have a whole list of farms that we could go back to to continue research if we get more funding to look at their farms or specific practices. So that’s sort of how our program is run and how we select farms and projects to move forward with.

JAMIE (10:59):
When you select a farm and there’s a project on that farm, what’s the typical lifespan of that? Does that depend on the practices? Are some just ongoing for a long period of time? I’m curious about that.

Tim Radatz (11:14):
Yes. Well, typically, we usually say five to seven years. With this sort of research, longer term is better because you get to a wide variety of weather conditions. You can get into dry periods or wet periods or practices might change over a longer period of time, which is an interesting aspect to look at from a research perspective. However, we need to balance that with the fact that these are real operating farms. People that have jobs want to farm, they don’t want to be necessarily in the spotlight for 20, 25 years in terms of, “Come out to my farm, see what we’re doing.” That takes effort and time, and so typically that five to seven years is a sweet spot where we can learn enough information about what’s going on, hopefully we’ll get some wetter and drier years and also not burn them out in terms of asking too much of them.

(12:22):
We have had one farm that we’re currently collecting data on, I think we’re up to 10 or 12 years. So it is a little more site dependent, and when we’re looking at more of these special projects where we’re looking at certain conservation practices, like I talked about that controlled drainage or that drainage water management practice, maybe at that site, we could be at that site a little longer because it might take some more time to really flesh out that information.

JAMIE (12:56):
Yeah. Let’s talk a little bit about cover crops. You mentioned earlier that you do have some projects going where you’re implementing cover crops. Can you share any results you’re seeing and what your team’s take is on the opportunity for cover crops in a state like Minnesota with our geography?

Tim Radatz (13:20):
Cover crops I think have significant potential. I don’t think it’s the only thing we should be focusing on for conservation practices in Minnesota and throughout the United States, there’s many other practices, but cover crops are an important one. The challenge that we have and we have observed through some of the projects we’ve undertaken trying to look at the impact of cover crops is the establishment of those cover crops. In a corn soybean rotation, it is very challenging to get cover crops established to the point where we can have significant impact on water quality. That’s our number one challenge is establishment. They work really well in certain crop rotations, more dairy forage rotations, rotations where the crops may be coming off earlier and we can get them planted earlier in the fall I think is a really good fit for cover crops and you can have really good success that way.

(14:18):
At one of our farms that we’re working with in Redwood County, this is just a corn soybean farm, been working a number of years to try to get cover crops established and it’s continually a challenge and unfortunately, the years that we’ve had good cover crop growth, the last few years, have been really good and our study has been really set up to collect some good data, but then what happens is the drought of the last few years. If we’re not getting rainfall and runoff, which can be a good thing, but not a good thing for our monitoring equipment and trying to collect numbers on this because if you have no numbers to compare, you have nothing to look at. So I think when we look at other research throughout the US, cover crops definitely have the potential to reduce some nitrate movement to tile lines. I think that’s pretty well understood. The challenge is trying to get those cover crops established and going and growing in the fall and hopefully over wintering into the spring.

(15:32):
When we’re looking at sediment and phosphorus impacts of cover crops, I think there’s potential there as well. There’s been some research in Canada that has shown that in our climate where we have severe winters in winter kill, there can be some issues with maybe some dissolved phosphorus losses with these cover crops killing during the winter and maybe releasing some. But the real benefit would be in terms of that phosphorus and sediment loss is if we can get a cover crop that can over winter into the spring and can provide some soil protection during that early spring time period where typically we have vulnerable soils with our annual crops, right? It’s right before we plant, right before the crop is canopied, and a combination of more intense rainfall events. That’s when we see the higher sediment losses and higher phosphorus losses through surface runoff. So if we can have a cover crop established and providing some soil protection during that time, in that early spring, April, May, June time period, we can have some significant benefits in terms of reducing sediment and phosphorus losses as well.

JAMIE (16:47):
Yeah, it’s interesting when you started that story and you started with Redwood County, I kind of knew where you were going as it’s not too far from here and there’s a little pocket in there the last couple of years that has been extremely dry and it’s basically Redwood County. We’ve got more rain up here, they’ve got more rain south of there, and yet we’ve had some great falls where they’ve gotten the crop out of the field early and they could do some practices and still had some good heat units in the fall to grow that cover crop.

(17:25):
So it’s disappointing, like you say, that there hasn’t been the moisture to really get a good idea of that, but I ask because I’m really curious, and I do think from a personal standpoint, I really like the opportunity that it provides us to connect water quality to soil health, and I think it’s really important as we go along with society on the opportunities we have in our industry just in agriculture in general, but especially when you’re in the water management industry and water quality industry around soil health too, what we can do for soil health.

Tim Radatz (18:07):
So I grew up on a dairy farm in southeast Minnesota, and I think one of the great things about agriculture that has always drawn me to agriculture is that idea about continuous improvement. What my dad and his grandfather did, we’re completely different from what we do now, right? And that isn’t because what they were doing was bad, it’s because we have learned better ways to do practices and better ways to produce a product and also protect the environment. So I think cover crops is still in that process of continuous improvement. We’re learning where they work, we’re learning how to make them work, we’re learning in different ways where they might not work so well. But people are trying them, and this fall, as you said, was a great example. I think you can go around and see a lot of cover crop growth because of the extended fall we had this year and the open fields we’ve had this winter.

(19:09):
There’s a lot of green out there in the places where they’re trying cover crops, and in that site in particular that we’re working with in Redwood County, we had a great fall for cover crop establishment. So we’re really set up to get some good data in 2024, and we’re just hoping that Mother Nature comes through and provides a little more rainfall.

JAMIE (19:29):
And we’ll take a risk here on the Water Table podcast and say that I do. My prediction is, and I’ve been wrong every time, so I’ll probably still be wrong, but sort of like saying the Vikings are going to win the Super Bowl, but I think it’s going to get wet. We’ve had a real extended, starting after last spring, it’s been pretty dry right here in [inaudible 00:19:57] County. We had some really nice moisture right before Christmas that the ground was not frozen, but other than that, it’s pretty dry and we are due, and it just feels like we’re… Everybody’s saying there’s going to be an early spring and I’m thinking it’s going to get kind of cool and wet here for all of planting season, so we’ll see how that goes.

Tim Radatz (20:20):
I’m with you. I think we’re due for a wetter growing season. When we first started in the 2010s collecting this data, boy, there were a lot of wet years, and it seems like the last three to four years, depending on where we’re looking at throughout the state, there’s been some dry years, so I think the odds are in favor for moving the other direction as well.

JAMIE (20:43):
Yeah, I agree. And I want to go back and just talk about your comment around continuous improvement in agriculture. It’s probably true in all of our lives and all of our industries and different occupations, but it’s so evident in agriculture and I agree with you. It’s something that’s really exciting to look back on our careers and see the implementation of new ideas and how we’ve come a long ways in technologies and in agriculture. It’s so evident over even a shorter period of time, five to 10 years, on all the things that are happening. That’s really exciting about being part of this industry.

Tim Radatz (21:27):
It is. And yes, a lot has changed since I’ve started doing this work, and I look back on the things that have changed. What makes me excited is to think about in another 10 to 20 to 30 years, what are things going to look like? I think it’s so interesting and we have no idea on the sort of innovations that are going to come along, but in agriculture, they will come along because people are figuring out ways to make things work, and that’s a great thing.

JAMIE (22:05):
And a friend of mine always said the statement, if you love yourself as a farmer, you’re going to buy a house or a condo in Florida, move down there in the winter, if you love your kids, you’re just going to buy more land, and if you love your grandkids, you’re going to tile the land. And I think there’s a lot of truth in what that really means is that keeping the soil healthy by managing the water table, it helps you do so many different things on your farm. It helps you to plant earlier, to harvest at the right time, helps you to even crop to get in and do the whole field, all kinds of stuff. But the reason I bring that up is I want to add one thing to it, like you said, in the next 30 years, I think there’s an added piece to that, and that’s, if you love your grandkids, you’re going to add these practices that promote water quality.

(23:01):
And people would’ve done it years ago, they just didn’t know. And so now as we’re learning this through places like Discovery Farms and where you can get these kind of results if you have cover crops, you can get these kind of results if you’re doing drainage water management, you can get these kind of results when you’re adding these different practices. People are going to do it when they know that it’s good for the environment, when it’s good for their grandkids, who their whole desire is that they stay on that farm and they continue the legacy.

Tim Radatz (23:40):
And people are going to do it if they know it’s going to work, right? And I love your comments about drainage. We talk a lot about drainage as a conservation practice. I believe it’s the first thing in a lot of our fields that we need to get managed correctly in order to do reduced tillage, in order to do cover crops, in order to try different things. Managing that drainage water is essential for everything. In our view, it’s the first thing that’s got to be done right before we can really start to have more of these conservation practices.

JAMIE (24:19):
Sure. Couldn’t agree more. It starts with your foundation and that’s part of the foundation. Tim, I really appreciate you joining me today on the Water Table. There’s a lot going on right now. We’re speaking in late February of 2024. I think this is going to be released in the next few weeks, but there’s a lot going on politically right now in Minnesota, and there’s going to be some… In fact today, there’s a drainage bill that’s being introduced, and so it’s just really important, I want to mention that, to have people like you and your group on the ground doing the research because there’s all kinds of ideas out there from our city cousins that they’ll listen when they know facts, but until they know facts, they assume things.

(25:14):
So I’m just really grateful that you’re out there and your group is out there doing this research and willing to bring it back. And I think there’s probably an opportunity for us in the future, especially the way things are going right now, maybe the near future, to continue to talk about this and continue to talk about what you’re finding. So thank you for being part of this on the Water Table today.

Tim Radatz (25:37):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

JAMIE (25:39):
And before we go, we got to ask you one thing. I know you had mentioned before we started, you’re a long suffering Minnesota Vikings fan, kind of like myself, and I see you have three boys, but you happen to live in Wisconsin, could hardly say that word, but that’s where you live, so are you able to keep them Vikings fans or have they been corrupted?

Tim Radatz (26:05):
Well, we’re about 50 50 right now. So one has been corrupted for sure. And my second one, the other day he said he was a Viking fan. And he’s tougher, so I told him, if you’re going to be a Viking fan, you got to be tough.

JAMIE (26:22):
Yeah. And that made you pretty proud, I’m sure.

Tim Radatz (26:25):
Yeah, things never really turn out good for them in the end, but they are still fun to cheer on and see how it’s going to turn out.

JAMIE (26:35):
Exactly. Well, thanks for your time, Tim, and have a great day.

Tim Radatz (26:40):
You too. Thank you so much.