Podcast Episode 66

2022 – A Year in Review

With Guest:
  • Jamie Duininck of the Water Table Podcast, Host

In this episode of The Water Table, Jamie looks back on several episodes of 2022’s podcasts and highlights some of his favorites. From applications in the field to changing weather patterns, a banker’s perspective on water management and an economist’s view on critical topics affecting agriculture; this episode has it all. Listen in for a little bit of everything. 

Watch the full episode on YouTube!

Episode 66 | 36 min

Guest Bio

This episodes featured guests include an application engineer, a safety committee steering member, an ag market relationship manager, an agricultural economist, a farmer, an atmospheric scientist, the executive director of the ADMC, a long-time industry expert and a banker.

Jamie Duininck (00:02):
This is the Water Table.

Kent Rodelius (00:05):
A chance to hear the agricultural side of these issues.

Jamie Duininck (00:09):
Place for people to go find information and education.

Speaker 3 (00:13):
Water management is just going to become even more critical into the future.

Jamie Duininck (00:19):
How misunderstood what we do is.

Kent Rodelius (00:21):
Is I would encourage people to open their minds and listen to this dialogue.

Jamie Duininck (00:31):
Well, welcome back to the Water Table podcast. Hope you all had a great Christmas and New Year. As we reflect on 2022, we wanted to share some episodes and do kind of a year in review for 2022. We had a great year at the Water Table podcast. We recorded and released 29 different episodes of the Water Table and had some fantastic guests along the way. And we just want to share a few highlights. Was hard to just pick each episode or which one should be on this podcast, but we picked a few highlights we thought were valuable and pulled some information out. And hope you find this episode of the Water Table helpful to you. First off, I wanted to share an episode that we did with Trey Allis, application engineer at Prinsco, and we were talking about engineering technical stuff, field application materials. We kind of did the whole gamut with Trey. Here’s a segment from that podcast. It was episode 44 in 2022.

Most of the time, the polypropylene costs more than the polyethylene because of just the input costs of propylene are higher at most times during a year. Not always, but most of the time, that’s true. So then, you have to look at, okay, can I justify in my costs and how I’m installing it at paying more for the product and still getting what I want out of it?

Trey Allis (02:18):

And a lot of times those differences of what you’re getting for, say, the stiffer pipe, it’s
the… Well, a 5% difference in burial depth, so it’s pretty much every application that we see, especially on the agricultural side of things, HDPE pipe is plenty suited for the depths and installation requirements that we need. We call it Goldpro Storm, specifically for the storm wire applications. That’s the primary market for it. One of the more unique benefits or where it benefits it more on the stormwater side is with the joint performance as well. We can get kind of more consistent joints, whether that be from the bell dimensions or the spigot dimensions, we can stay tighter and more consistent with polypropylene within some of that stuff too. So when you’re talking about joint performance, that’s more stringent in stormwater applications than ag so… But then, that kind of gets back to the point of within the ag market is pretty much everywhere that you’re using the pipe. HDPE is just fine

Jamie Duininck (03:21):
Yeah, and I’ve had, just to clear it up too, I’ve had questions over time in regards to flow rates and mannings, and it’s the same whether it’s polyethylene or polypropylene. It’s dual pipe. It has the smooth liner and the mannings aren’t any better with the higher performance polypropylene pipe than it is on the polyethylene. And so, the higher performance has nothing to do with the flow rate.

Trey Allis (03:50):
Correct, yep. It’s still made on the same machines, same mold blocks, pretty much same everything, just that plastic acts a little differently, when it’s, I guess, when it’s installed, essentially that, yep, it’s very equivalent. It’s just a little stiffer.

Jamie Duininck (04:06):
Yep, yep. Next, I’d like to share an episode we did with Travis Albers Call Before you Dig is safety message. We’re talking about all of the things in the safety message that needs to be out there for our industry. We’re digging in the ground, we’re out in the rural countryside, where it doesn’t seem like there could be problems, but there absolutely can be that can have tragic consequences. So with Travis, we’re talking about the importance of safety in our industry. We’re talking about a film that was released about this, that’s a great film. You can find that in the episode. It was episode 47 and the link to that film. But here’s a segment from the episode of Travis Albers.

Travis Albers (05:07):
There’s a lot of organizations that address pipeline safety, Utility, Underground Safety, Common Ground Alliance, Southern Gas Association, lots of things out there, Ag, Pipeline Operator Safety, lot of things like that. But we knew that this group should just address this one specific activity. And when kind of the call went out and a number of companies got together, it appeared that there might be an opportunity to make a film about this incident for the goal being to spread this to the broader agricultural community, to raise awareness. So the film began filming in 2020, I believe. We really started looking into it in 2019. The company that was used, Petro, did just an absolutely phenomenal job. My heart goes out to that family. God bless. God bless them for willing to go on camera and share their story. I think she says it very well in there, “If it just changes one person’s behavior and one person calls 811, then the effort of that film is worth it.”.

As you mentioned, I believe it’s currently won two awards, maybe three. I will probably be corrected about that later, but it’s been put forward in a number of different film festivals, probably at least six to eight different festivals across the country, nominated for a number of different things. But all that aside, it could win a hundred different film awards, but truly, if it does make one farmer, if it changes their behavior and they say, “You know what, I think I’m going to call 811. I’ll put off the project one day or I’ll just take that extra effort, make that one call.” And that changes that behavior and somebody goes out there and marks a line, then that is why this documentary, why this film was made.

Like I said, when growing up in the suburbs, I don’t have an agricultural background. So when this film was being made, to me, much of it was very, I don’t want to say academic, but I’m concerned about reducing damages. So I watched the film for the first time, and it impacted me more than I thought. The oldest daughter’s name, I believe, was Madeline, and my oldest daughter’s name is Madeline. And it hit me just so fast, while I was watching that video there about eight minutes in and I couldn’t help, but think “What if my Madeline…” It became very personal to me, for someone who doesn’t have a lot of relation to this activity, but all of a sudden, the safety aspect of it did. And it just really got me even more cemented into our organization and what we’re doing. And I really do believe that the message we have is, it’s a powerful one, it’s a practical one. And the end goal potentially could save someone’s life.

So if anyone hasn’t seen it, I recommend they can just go to threesecondslater.org. T-H-R-E-Esecondslater.org. You can Google it and find it, it’s online for free to be streamed. It’s in a couple select film festivals currently, but I really would recommend anyone who hasn’t seen that. Check it out at threesecondslater.org. Excellent film.

Jamie Duininck (08:23):
Yeah. I’m glad you stated that. We’ll also have a link on the podcast for people to find it. The film name again is Three Seconds Later. Don’t confuse that with… It’s only 12 minutes long. The name is Three Seconds but it’s only 12 minutes long. And we all have 12 minutes. And just to talk a little bit more about that or to share my thoughts on what you said is it really is impactful and I do encourage people to listen to it. And, again, this is rooted out of an accident, because they didn’t call 811. But I think, if we’re open to listening to it, you recognize really quickly how fast your life and loved ones lives can change. And that can happen with… It doesn’t have to be because you made a mistake and didn’t call 811, which is a tragedy. It can be because you were texting and driving or reading emails, or it can be because you were working alone in a situation where you really should have had somebody with you and might have had an issue that wouldn’t have been an issue with another person there.

We did a fun episode in 2022 with Kent Rodelius on his career that spanned over 40 years at Prinsco and all the things that happened during that 40 years, the history of our industry that occurred during that time and learned about how Kent kind of goes to work every day and how he does business. That was episode 49 of the Water Table in 2022. And here’s a segment from that.

Kent Rodelius (10:15):
We were just coming out of the farm crisis of the late eighties. And like you were saying, Jamie, the technology was exploding in the farm industry. And one of the really key portions of that was the tile line, the yield monitors over tile lines. But the farmers kind of had their suspicions that was happening, but you wouldn’t trust a salesman. You need to see it for yourself, so a lot of young college students returning to the farm that were pretty technically savvy, that understood how technology could drive their operations on the farm. And so, they’d have conversations with dad and say, “let’s look this over.” And pretty soon, the tale was in the tape. And they could see very clearly that, if they would put tile in closer, a lot of the original tile was tile was called target tiling, where there’d be a wet area and you’d go in and drain that.

And what you really did was only move water around on the farm. That water that was there now went to another low spot that wasn’t quite as low, and just went until you chased it off the farm. So people started doing, what we call now, pattern tiling, where they grid tile, a whole piece of ground, a whole quarter or an 80 or a 40 or whatever. And they see remarkable, remarkable results. And it was often, that was your worst land. And now, it turns into the first land that you can get onto in the spring. You can get it planted all in one pass. It just started stair stepping. And those things came together. And people just saw the great value of controlling the water on their farm.

Jamie Duininck (11:59):
Yeah, it’s so interesting. And we’re just talking today and telling stories, but it’s evident today. And today, just this spring with how much rain we’ve had in the upper Midwest and how cold the spring has been, we’re seeing that the fields that the farmers were able to get on when it was still super wet, was the places where they have their water managed the best and those fields pattern tiled. And then, stuff that still isn’t done and probably is going to be prevent planted is some of the worst stuff. And we just have to continue as a society to allow farmers to really manage their best land.

And we probably need to continue to develop and evolve and buffer some of the stuff that shouldn’t be farmed, but as a society, as we see things going, and as our government spend so much money, we have to get to the point where we can perform on the farm without farm subsidies, if we don’t need them. There’s so much evidence of that. When you have water and when you can get rid of your water, you can grow a great crop. And when you don’t have those two things aligned, there’s going to be problems. And you’re not going to be able to make money on the farm, you don’t make money on the farm. We’ve talked about that before, learned that from you. But that’s where taxes come from, that pays for schools and hospitals and local governments. So it’s a pretty awesome thing when it’s working.

On episode 52 of the Water Table, we had the opportunity to hear from an agricultural economist, a friend of mine, Michael Swanson from Wells Fargo, their chief agricultural economist. And we talked about the economy, the current state of economy in 2022 of agriculture. We talked about carbon. It was a fun conversation to hear him and how bullish he is on water management and tiling and why it’s so important when you have all of your other fixed costs. It’s really important to make sure you have your water management and drainage in place. So listen to this segment from episode 52 of the Water Table.

Michael Swanson (14:31):
And I’m going to say something odd. I think you’re underselling tiling here.

Jamie Duininck (14:35):
Well, thank you.

Michael Swanson (14:36):
Because the same 2,000 acres, you’d have the same equipment, same seed rate, typically same NPK prescription over it, same crop chemical. And then, you get that 20% more yield, because it performs. Instead of buying another quarter, like you said, where you have to expand your seed spending, your equipment spending, your NPK spending to get those average yields. And so, it’s so important to understand the marginal impact of getting the additional yield on the existing spend instead of getting additional output on additional spending. And that has just a huge leveraging effect. So I think you’re underselling tiling on there, Jamie, which is strange.

Jamie Duininck (15:25):
I’m glad that you explained that better. Absolutely. I wanted to share it that way and get your response, but that really does lead into another point and that is around just the environmental side of this. And if you’re getting more yield on the same acres, that’s less chemical. It’s the same amount, but you’re growing more yields instead of buying more ground and doing it. It’s less carbon footprint, less fuel being used in those tractors, all of that. And I think our industry on the water management side has to continue to tell that story in a good way, because we’re growing more with less. But talk a little bit about what you’re seeing and what you know about the carbon markets, where that’s headed. Is there going to be an opportunity? Is there any opportunity for farmers when it comes to the carbon sequestration?

Michael Swanson (16:27):
There could be an opportunity, but I think the market outside of farming just doesn’t know numbers. They don’t appreciate it. They say, “Oh, maybe we’ll give them $10 an acre for carbon credit.” But a $5 corn. That’s two bushels. So why would I fool around for two bushels? I can lose two bushels from a miss adjusted combine head, and I need to say, “you got to give me a real incentive to want to do something about this, whether it is no-till or limited till or whatever it is.” So they have to come to that understanding that if they want a farmer who has a thousand dollars an acre revenue to change behavior, they’ve got to start talking a hundred dollars an acre of carbon credit before they’re really going to start listening and changing practices. They just don’t know the dollars yet. And over 180 million acres of corn and soybeans, they don’t want to write those types of checks.

Jamie Duininck (17:17):
And yet they don’t want to write them, but yet, it still is probably some of the cheaper ways we can actually attack this problem than when you start talking about some of the urban issues in some of the industrial issues. Still the agriculture and rural America areas are going to be expensive, but not as expensive as a challenge of some of the other industrial pollution.

Michael Swanson (17:45):
It brings up an interesting concept. You got to deal with the pretty sacred cows at the same time. They don’t want you to touch groundwater. They don’t want you to manage water, but they want you to reduce carbon footprint. And crop performance is all about having the right amount of water at the right time. Tile is great for getting rid of excess when you don’t need it. But irrigation is excellent for putting it on when you need it. But so many people in the urban area don’t want you to ever pump water for irrigation, which is also a huge yield enhancer. Because they say groundwater is sacred. I’m like, “Why is it sacred? Why can’t we use groundwater that’s going to get regenerated, recharged over the next year from other things”? But they don’t see it that way.

Jamie Duininck (18:36):
I also have a segment from episode 53 of the Water Table, Karl Guetter, our segment lead for agriculture here at Prinsco. And I sat down and just visited about the industry, the current state of the industry, some of our history. We both have been in the industry a long time. Karl’s been farming for his whole career and what he sees as some of the takeaways of the current state of agricultural water management. So listen to this segment now.

Karl Guetter (19:07):
We’ve both been in the industry a long time and it definitely has changed. I mean, my dad, when he tiled in the eighties, he was tiling to make the farm farmable. He wanted to get the potholes drained, to be able to actually drive across a thing. And then we got into the nineties, I would say maybe into the early two thousands. And the focus really changed from making the farm farmable to making it profitable. We started seeing pattern tiling, and that still is happening in many areas. But I think recently a lot of the push has been more on efficiencies. As farms continue to get larger, farmers are farming in a circle that may be 30 miles, it may be a hundred miles. And also no farmer wants to pull into a 40 acre field anymore. So to make the farm uniform, to have efficiencies from an equipment standpoint, be able to plant, being able to go from one field to the next, without picking everything up and going 30 miles across the county, is definitely something that’s driving some of it.

Another thing I would say that’s driving it, is that inputs are high right now. So I mean, you can easily stick seven, eight, $900 into an acre of corn, and soybeans is growing as well. And if you’re going to stick a ton of money into it, you’re going to want to make sure you took care of what’s under the ground first, because you’re going to have a hard time going out there and spraying fungicide. Or if you’re doing beans, you have a hard time putting fungicide or spraying for aphids, or putting on some micronutrients. If you haven’t taken care of some of your other stuff first. So I think that’s driving a ton of it. And then, lastly, I would say just with land changing hands, is probably another large one, as land changes hands more often than not now we’re starting to see that ground is tiled the second it changes hands.

And I think that’s for a couple reasons. One is obviously, once you’ve bought something bought, bought, inherited, however you came and however you got it becomes a little bit painful to have to write another check. But if you can do it up front, you can roll that into your financing, I think it’s just a little easier. Kind of like when you’re buying a new vehicle and you just keep pushing the buttons, what you want, just keep pushing buttons and adding features. I think that’s kind of the same way to some degree. So it’s just a little bit easier to do it then. And bankers, bankers are willing to give you more money for it, right? They’re willing to lend the money for tiling.

Jamie Duininck (21:32):
I think that piece is a double edge sword from the standpoint of, if you’re going to pay the amount of money that it’s costing now to buy an acre of farm ground, you can only justify that by making sure it’s going to return by having your water managed. On the other side of that, the guys that weren’t the winning bidder, they were there, they were at the auction, they wanted to buy it, but they weren’t willing to pay that. They go home and say, “Well, I can’t buy farmland, it’s going too high. How do we get more bushels on what we have?” Well, how they get more bushels is manage the land by tiling and water management. So I think it’s both are happening, but for sure, I would say the people I’ve talked to around the Midwest in the last 24 months, it seems like that piece has really picked up where they tile it immediately.

I think I mentioned this on a podcast not too long ago as a farm that I know sold in December in Minnesota here, close to where Prinsco’s at, and it was all tiled, it was 400 acres, it was all tiled before the crop was planted that spring. So a lot of guys will put it, like you say, in their financing, but it still might take a year for somebody to get there. I was surprised when I knew that ground switched hands in December to see pipe on the ground there in March.

Karl Guetter (23:05):
And some of that is probably due to you have ground switching hands, and I think most farmers in general know the math behind it. They know that they can tile their own land and they can make more money if they tile it. However, a lot of farmers rent a lot of ground, and sometimes it’s harder to get that landlord convinced that they should spend the money on tiling. So I’m guessing there’s a higher proportion of that rented ground that still needs pipe. So I guess it would make sense that, as that starts changing hands, either going to an investor or a farmer that farms something across the road, that there’s opportunity there to tile that ground, because it was just harder to get that landlord in the past to pull the trigger, spend the money.

Jamie Duininck (23:54):
I had the opportunity to interview for the podcast, Eric Snodgrass. Eric is a meteorologist and works for the University of Illinois, and we talked about weather patterns, weather changes, and how it impacts agriculture. It was a fascinating episode to be part of. I encourage you to listen to the whole thing, but I have a few pieces of that episode here. I really enjoyed my time visiting with Eric. What would you say the number one thing a farmer can do to keep stability in his or her operation, knowing what you know about atmospheric rain delivery and how you think that’s just going to continue to be a lot of variability in that?

Eric Snodgrass (24:54):
I’ll tell you this, the first thing I would do is, if I were a farmer growing in these conditions, I would get my hand on every bit of research from the extension offices, from the big public universities, I would talk to as many agronomists as I possibly could, I’d talk to my farmer friends and I would just listen and take in the information that they can share with me about what’s helping them stay resilient, what’s in those articles about soil conservation practices, about drainage that’s making folks more resilient to any sort of weather event.

And then, what I would do is I’d step back and do an analysis on the return on investment. So for me in Illinois, would it pay for me to pattern tile or retile? I’d want to know the answer to that. If I change my tillage practice with that, if I change my rotation, I would just want answers to those questions.

In other words, what I would want to do is I’d want to challenge myself through research, real research, reading peer review publications, reading what the extension offices are saying and I’d want to then see if I could make a strategic change in my operation to be more efficient. Because that’s the one thing I can control is efficiency. Because I can’t control the markets and I can’t control the weather, but if I can control my efficiency and preserve that soil, I would go after that.

The second part of this, and it’s a little bit different, but I would never ever bet the farm on a forecast. And what I mean by that is, guys like me, we look out there very speculatively, say, “Gosh, the risk of drought is this,” or, “The risk of flooding rains is that.”

The reality is the best farmers I’ve ever met in my entire life, which I would define as most successful, which means they get to retire and they have a succession plan to pass that farm on and didn’t ruin it, those guys, I call them base hit farmers. Year in and year out, base hit farming.

They never swing for the fences. They make systematic changes, so that, by the time they’re at the end of their career, they have built up this farm that’s sustainable, that the soil’s been taking well, the crops are successful. And they do that by just staying ahead of what the research is saying. And I hope that if I ever get to farm, I’m one of those guys.

Jamie Duininck (27:13):
On episode 56 of the Water Table, I had the opportunity to interview Keegan Kult from the Agricultural Drainage Management Coalition. Keegan is somebody that we’ve tried to get on the podcast or just didn’t work out for our schedule or his schedule over time, but has a lot of important information and is an important part of our industry. So it’s fun to have him on. We talked about what’s happening with Agricultural Drainage Management Coalition. We talked a lot about just the history of our industry and how it takes a long time to change minds and change hearts and minds really, and how that really ties back to relationships. So the podcast took a couple of turns I didn’t realize when I went into it, that was fun to record. And here’s a segment from that. You’ll enjoy it.

I heard a saying a long time ago around how it takes a long time to get dry but only takes one day to get wet. And so, I think that’s part of it. That’s an obvious statement. It’s true. Every farmer will recognize that and understand that. But it also is, at times, in out of sight, out of mine. Because what that means is, there’s short periods of dry times and there’s short periods of really wet times and there’s all that in between time.

But that in between time, things are just going fine. And everybody knows they need drainage, but they’re not thinking about it all the time. Because they don’t feel like they need it right now, even though they do. Because of all of the research that shows how well it works. So I think that that little statement is part of it and how they think about it, because it’s out of sight out of mind.

Keegan Kult (29:05):
And that really even applies to building that relationship with the public. It takes a long time to get dry, so maybe a long time to maybe heal a relationship. Usually people start pointing fingers when there’s a big, catastrophic event and they think about it. In Iowa, of course, the Des Moines Water Works lawsuit because we’ve had to run the nitrate plant so many days. And so then a lot of fingers started getting pointed. And so, it takes a long time to build that relationship back after that big wet event.

And I think it’s also important for us to remember, it is a two way street. There are real concerns for people, the general public, on stuff. But by having these open channels of communication, I think it really helps a lot. And some people like to throw around the word, “partnerships,” just because it sounds good. But you really do get a lot of work done because people do have different areas of expertise.

And I’ll keep going back to this batch and build. We’re using… One of the big innovations on that is, [inaudible 00:17:29] it’s really not that innovative, but it is for practice deliveries, we use a fiscal agent on that. And so, we use a public entity that’s used to dealing with infrastructure improvements. So a lot of the counties out there, they’re used to doing public bid letting all the time. And this is something one-on-one smaller conservation practices, it wasn’t being done.

That’s something we could like, “Hey, well we could rely on you, this public entity, for something that we’re not really equipped to do ourselves.” And they’re like, “Oh, yeah. That’s no problem. And we could do it this way, this way, and that way.” And all of a sudden, we can get this paperwork in place and instead of putting five practices in the ground over a year, now we’re putting in 50 in this area, just because we expanded it so much. And it’s really not that much bigger of a lift.

Jamie Duininck (31:00):
We also, in 2022, were able to interview a banker and got some information from a banker’s perspective on water management. And Jake Jenniges joined us, who was a banker from southern Minnesota. Karl Guetter, our segment lead, myself and Jake just kind of had a round table discussion around agriculture, water management, the importance of water management, and from a lending and finance perspective, how he thinks about that. So listen to the segments here from episode 63, and I think you’ll enjoy them.

Karl Guetter (31:43):
So I’m curious, Jake, as guys come in your office, Jamie mentioned earlier that we’ve got to harvest out early, maybe a little bit left in your southern part of your territory you cover, but for the most part, it’s done. As these guys are coming in, they’re talking to you about tax planning, they’re talking to you about what they’re going to spend money on, obviously. How has that changed over the past five, 10 years? You’ve been in the business about 15 years. About how does it change in what they’re asking for? Do you see trends at the end of each year? Sometimes guys go to, like you said, towards new equipment, sometimes it’s drainage, right?

Jacob Jenniges (32:16):
Well, I definitely think, over my time here, drainage has become one of the top of the list that people want to invest in. And as a lender, who has seen that be, arguably, never the wrong decision, to be completely honest, unless you don’t have the money, but then, that’s my job to tell them they shouldn’t do it, right? But if you have the funds to invest in that, I always think that’s the right call. Drainage is one of the only long term income producing decisions that a farmer can make that can basically last their entire career. And I would argue in my opinion.

And whether corn is worth $3 or $7 guys, you still want to get as much as you can. I don’t think there’s any doubt about that, right? And drainage is top of the list of things that can get you more of what you have to sell. So yes Karl, I agree. Right now, the land price is tough. Tough for a young farmer, especially. Old farmers maybe don’t want to be in that game anymore either to come in and say that they want to invest in some $14,000 per acre land.

Karl Guetter (33:21):
It’s almost become untouchable.

Jacob Jenniges (33:23):
It’s almost become untouchable. I completely agree. There’s still some family deals out there I’ve done. But that being said, we really try to focus on, and I know that’s going to be a focus for us this year, is how can we get as much as we can out of what we have instead of adding more drainage. Number one on the list for that stuff. Equipment can do that too. You get some better equipment, you plant it better, you harvest it better. All that stuff is really important. But drainage is a one thing also. What do we have in a Ag world to control weather? What do we have for that? We have crop insurance. I would argue is one. And then, drainage I think is probably the second thing. I don’t know what else we can do to try to control the weather. That’s because that’s the biggest variable that we always deal with.

Obviously, government’s a little bit in there too, but still we have weather, we have tile and we have crop insurance. So you can control what you price your grain for. Now, you can’t control what the price is but you can control the decision. You can control when you plant it, how much you plant, the population. You can control your fertilizer rates. You can control all that but you cannot control whether or not it rains too much or not enough. So I’ve always felt like drainage was the one way you can mitigate that ultimate risk of weather just a little bit.

Jamie Duininck (34:48):
So as you can see, 2022 on the Water Table was a productive year. We were able to continue with our mission of educating our industry and the general public. We had a lot of great guests on, and it was fun to be part of this process. As we go into 2023, excited about continuing what we’ve started here, continuing to educate. And we’re finding guests all the time. People are coming to us and we’re continuing to uncover opportunities to learn on our own and to continue to educate our customers and just people that want to know more, that want to learn about what water management is. So we’re really excited about where this can continue to go. And we wish you the best, all the best in 2023, and we’re excited to continue to bring you content on the Water Table podcast. Thanks for joining us today on the Water Table. You can find us at watertable.ag, find us on Facebook. You can find us on Twitter, and you can also find the podcast on any of your favorite podcast platforms.